Question Yet another question on licensing and Appserver

LarryD

Active Member
We have a new Progress rep (yet again) and we are trying to determine what Appserver product and licensing model we need to get.

Our customer is very small (Workgroups 10.2B about 25 users). The current license for the DB is concurrent user.

We are in the process of designing/co-developing a quoting app for their salespeople, and intend on using the Basic version of Appserver (or Enterprise version if necessary) to do the usual passing of data back and forth via Coldfusion (their choice). There would be a maximum of 5-10 users, generally not at the same time. No webspeed, no web services required.

According to this sales rep, we are supposed to match the user count and licensing model of the workgroups license, but we have already done this for other customers where we have named user for the DB and x-number of agents for the appserver (which I think are different license models, but I could be wrong).

Is that correct?

And as for Appserver, the rep claims that the Basic Appserver can have only 1 agent and 2 processes max.

Is this correct? And if so, why would Progress require a 5 user minimum when you (supposedly) only handle 2 processes concurrently?

From my perspective, the rep was (shall we say) not exactly knowledgeable (she was really pushing Enterprise $$$ though even with low user counts and light utilization).

Any suggestions/comments/advice as to what we should be pressing for is most welcome. Anyone with knowledge of the differences between Basic and Enterprise Appserver would also be much appreciated.
 

Rob Fitzpatrick

ProgressTalk.com Sponsor
Your rep is wrong. (Shocking! :rolleyes:)

I don't know what "1 agent and 2 processes" is supposed to refer to (does she know what a process is?) but OE AppServer Basic supports up to 2 agents.

From the policy guide:
OpenEdge Application Server Basic Edition:An integrated application
server for all types of clients including Progress 4GL (Client Networking
and WebClient), HTML Web-based applications, and Open Clients (Java,
.NET, and outbound Web services). Enables the execution of 4GL-based
remote procedures that are stored on a server and called by Progress
4GL, Java, and .NET client applications. Includes networking for
connecting to remote OpenEdge RDBMS servers, other OpenEdge
Application Servers, or OpenEdge DataServers. Also includes Adapter for
SonicMQ®, Secure AppServer Internet Adapter, and WebSpeed
Transaction Server. The Basic Edition is the entry-level OpenEdge
Application Server for small to mid-sized deployments that require
application server functionality without the requirement for Load Balancing
or full Web services or Sonic ESB® support.

NOTE: This product is limited to 2 Access Agents

You do have a copy of the licensing guide, don't you? :)

The minimum and maximum unit quantities (and counting methodologies) are determined by the license model used for your license. The appropriate license model depends on how the product will be used, and by whom (e.g. standard users, unknown users, etc.). So you might license it under Concurrent User or under Access Agent, whichever is appropriate for your use case. For AppServer Basic these model carry different unit prices and different limits. Under Access Agent the limit is two users. According to the price lists, for Concurrent, Named User and Registered Client the minimum is 5 users and there is no maximum.

I'm not aware of any requirement to match AppServer count to the existing database license count, as you do for database add-on products like OE Replication, TDE or Mult-tenant tables. However for client/server connections you do license both the client side and the server side; maybe that's what she was referring to. So for example if you selected a license for AppServer Basic, Access Agent model (2 agents), you would also purchase a 2-agent Workgroup RDBMS license (a "paper" license; you don't install it) on the Access Agent model. But again, it depends how you use it. You could conceivably have an AppServer application that doesn't connect to a DB at all, in which case there is no "server side", so no requirement for a matching RDBMS license.
 

Rob Fitzpatrick

ProgressTalk.com Sponsor
One other thing I forgot to mention: the licensing guide lists "Any OpenEdge RDBMS or OE DataServer" as a prerquisite for AppServer, both Basic and Enterprise.

Here is the description for Enterprise AppServer:
OpenEdge Application Server Enterprise Edition: An integrated
application server for all types of clients, including Progress 4GL (Client
Networking and WebClient), HTML Web-based applications, Open Clients
(Java and .NET) and Web services. Enables the execution of 4GL-based
remote procedures that are stored on a server and called by a Progress
4GL, Java, .NET or Web service client applications. Includes networking
for connecting to remote OpenEdge RDBMS servers or other OpenEdge
Application Servers. Also includes OpenEdge Adapter for SonicMQ,
OpenEdge Adapter for Sonic ESB, Secure AppServer Internet Adapter,
support for Web services and WebSpeed Transaction Server. The
Enterprise Edition is for mid-sized to large deployments of mission critical,
transaction intensive applications.
 

LarryD

Active Member
Thank you Thank you Thank you Rob. That's what I thought and also why we were going the Basic Appsever route as it clearly fills our needs.

Only question I have is since the Appsever will be installed on the same server as the existing Workgroups DB (which is properly licensed), would we really need to buy another 2 agent Workgroup RDBMS license since it will not be client/server per se but direct connects to the DB? Or am I misunderstanding what you said?

And yes, we've asked them for a CURRENT policy guide (since I can't find it for download on PSDN or the Progress web site). I read this forum regularly, and am well aware of you, Tom, Thomas and others using that as the basis for these discussions.
 

Rob Fitzpatrick

ProgressTalk.com Sponsor
In this context, I meant "client/server" in that the DB is the server side and the AppServer is the ABL client that connects to the DB, whether via TCP or shared memory. If you buy 2 of one, you buy 2 of the other.
 

Rob Fitzpatrick

ProgressTalk.com Sponsor
And yes, we've asked them for a CURRENT policy guide (since I can't find it for download on PSDN or the Progress web site).

You're welcome Larry. And let us know which version of the guide you get. My "current" version of the Progress Product Licensing and Migration Guide has a footnote that says "(c) 2010 Progress Software Corporation, Effective Date: 1 June 2010".

Also note this tidbit in the guide, courtesy of the legal weasels:
About the OpenEdge Policy Guidelines
This policy guide contains important licensing, migration and product details and is designed to help you to better understand the
various policies and guidelines that apply to OpenEdge products. This guide should be used for educational purposes only and
shall not be construed to be part of the license agreement unless expressly stated in the license agreement. In the event of any
inconsistency or conflict between the provisions of this guide and the license agreement, the license agreement shall govern. All
information contained in this guide is subject to review and update by Progress Software Corporation, at its sole discretion.

Interestingly, it doesn't say that the guide or its contents are confidential. :)
 

LarryD

Active Member
I actually found a 2009 version on the Progress website, but I cannot believe that is the 'current' version of this document. I'll let you know what date/version we get.
 

tamhas

ProgressTalk.com Sponsor
You don't mention version, which is likely to matter.

I believe that the last published version of the Policy Guide is labelled 06--2010. There is a new version under production right now, but not yet published.
 
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