Cost of Lisensing

[TomBascom]

Step 1) Create a US subsidiary.

Step 2) Put your licenses in "the cloud".

 

[pivert]

I wanted to switch from unix to windows but at an "administrative cost" of 250 euro / user and having about 200 users... I guess they still engrave each license in Italian marble. And I'm still on unix.

 

[RealHeavyDude]

They think that a change in platform ( in your example from Unix to Windows ) should not be covered by maintenance. In such a case you need to buy new licenses - for whatever that is worth ...

Sometimes I feel that their strategy when it comes to licensing is very short-sighted, to say the least.

Heavy Regards, RealHeavyDude.

 

[tamhas]

What version, pivert? If I recall correctly, about which I am not sure, in V9 platform change was done on the trade-in model, but starting with 10 there was no charge, if one was on maintenance. You *are* on maintenance, aren't you ... because if you aren't and haven't been for a while, your existing licenses are worth little or nothing.

Even if trade-in, the new licenses only cost cash out of pocket if you paid less for the old ones. In many cases, this is unlikely, e.g., a V9 concurrent user is $730 and a V10/11 named user/registered client is $585 in US pricing. That $730 was the same price as the 2003 price 10 years ago. Where the unhappiness comes, other than the maintenance issue, of course, is often because someone has an old unlimited or machine class license which, because of the increasing power of machines over the years, is now supporting a much larger user base than was envisioned when the license was granted. While I understand the nasty surprise, it is also true that one has been operating for many years on cheap licenses.

Of course, one might say that it serves you right for trying to change in the wrong direction!

 

[pivert]

Hi Tamhas, we are currently on 10.2b and our Progress partner does a license check every year, maintenance is paid every year. We're still on concurrent user but even then we are still about 50 licenses above that.

And yes, I know but I have a small site of about 60 users running on windows / vmware with no hickups. So my idea was, since the previous unix (aix) was nearing its limits, to switch to 2 dedicated windows hosts (for fail-over).

No complaints about aix, stable as hell but I always lose my way in the sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub directories and the commands with -many -Different -different -params. Now we have a new one, with virtualisation software and the previous one has been reinstalled with virtual host running and is being used as test / fail-over should the need arise. And we outsourced monitoring / maintenance of the aix servers.

 

[tamhas]

So, if you are on 10.2B, what is the arithmetic that is leading to your $250/user charge. From the Policy Guide:

"4.8 Platform Change
Certain products are available on multiple platforms. For these product offerings, licensee may change from the originally licensed platform to another available platform if the license is covered under Customer Support. The License Equivalency policy applies for platform changes. Licensees may request the new media required to install the OpenEdge product on the new platform. Use of the original license must be discontinued within forty-five (45) days of receipt of the new license. Licensees with licenses that are not covered under Customer Support may either pay a maintenance reinstatement fee (Refer to Section 5 for details) and take advantage of the License Equivalency policy or purchase the new license at list price."

and

"License Equivalency: Licensees that maintain their licenses under Customer Support receive the right to change certain license attributes without incurring any additional license fees, subject to the conditions outlined below. The License Equivalency policy typically applies when a licensee migrates to an equivalent license and no substantive changes are made to the license rights granted to a licensee. Shipping, handling, taxes, media, and import duty charges may apply."

So, there is no charge to just change platforms. Now if "we are still about 50 licenses above that" means that you are underlicensed currently and the platform change is triggering a catch up to fully license, e.g., going from 150 to 200 users, then I can see the cost of the additional users coming out with a number like this ... but that is not a product of some restrictive platform change policy.

 

[Rob Fitzpatrick]

No complaints about aix, stable as hell but I always lose my way in the sub-sub-sub-sub-sub-sub directories

I don't understand this. Unix and Windows are essentially functionally identical in this regard. The file systems may be different under the covers but in terms of user functionality they are the same. You have a tree structure with a root directory that contains file and directories, and each of the directories may contain files and directories. If that isn't confusing in Windows, it shouldn't be in AIX either.

...and the commands with -many -Different -different -params. Now we have a new one, with virtualisation software and the previous one has been reinstalled with virtual host running and is being used as test / fail-over should the need arise. And we outsourced monitoring / maintenance of the aix servers.

If system administration is outsourced now, why is command complexity a problem? And as with Windows, it's a problem easily solved with books, manuals, and online help.

 

[RealHeavyDude]

Last time I talked to a Progress sales rep about a platform change - last year - he stated that, for a platform change ( Sun Solaris to RedHat Linux ), there would be no trade-in and we would have to buy the new licenses even though we are on maintenance. If whatt you say, Tamhas, is true - and I trust you that you are familiar with the policy guide, then this is another example from Progress subsidiaries outside of the U.S. handling the lincensing differently than in the U.S.

Seems I like I need to get a hold on this policy guide and check whether there is a different one for different parts of the world.

Heavy Regards, RealHeavyDude.

 

[TomBascom]

Last time I talked to a Progress sales rep about a platform change - last year - he stated that, for a platform change ( Sun Solaris to RedHat Linux ), there would be no trade-in and we would have to buy the new licenses even though we are on maintenance. If whatt you say, Tamhas, is true - and I trust you that you are familiar with the policy guide, then this is another example from Progress subsidiaries outside of the U.S. handling the lincensing differently than in the U.S.

Seems I like I need to get a hold on this policy guide and check whether there is a different one for different parts of the world.

I've said it many times but I'll repeat it:

NEVER speak to anyone from Progress about pricing or licenses without having first obtained, and carefully studied, the policy guide.

No matter how nicely they smile and no matter how nice a lunch or round of golf or whatever -- in the end they are sales people. They are looking for the maximum commission and they can be very "creative".

 

[RealHeavyDude]

You are completely right, my fault - I should have known better. Lucky me we just did consider but not actually making a platform change.

Thanks, RealHeavyDude.

 

[pivert]

@tamhas: we have 50 concurrent licenses extra, not short. We've pulled a stat over several years and we're having around 200 concurrent users but 250 licenses. But that's no problem since we expect extra growth in Russia. The extra 50 were purchased when there were some take-overs but shortly after this, some departments left the company.

Thanks for this extract, I'll have a nice talk with our Progress partner.

 

[tamhas]

I just asked my sales rep and he says that the Policy Guide from which I quoted is a world wide document.