Pro2-sql Product

maretix

Member
Hello to all of you.

Our IT department uses OpendEdge 10.2b db and an ERP written with OE102B
We have also written a DW with SQL SERVER 2014 BI EDITION.

I read about PRO2-SQL product as a good software to customers who need to have only updated records from certain (not all) tables from ERP's DB.
We do not want to implement TRIGGERS inside our DB
I'd like idea to have a software to do custom replication , without changing ERP's structure...

Example:
We have a lot of SSIS package to pull data
We'd like to pull data we need , that is only updated records in a day ...
Our ERP do not match all updated records.
Our DW is being to be very large...and then also ssis packages' time execution.

Any advices ???

Regards in advance.
 

TomBascom

Curmudgeon
You can write a whole lot of custom code.

A really, really, really *lot* of highly custom and very fragile code.

That will require a lot of maintenance.

In a language that I suspect is not your preferred development language.

Or you can use Pro2.

It is true, Pro2 does use triggers.

But the alternative is frighteningly difficult and expensive.

My advice: rethink your position regarding triggers.
 

TomBascom

Curmudgeon
To elaborate a bit... if you insist on not using triggers you will need a mechanism to distinguish changed data from unchanged data. You also mention that you don't want to change the ERPs structure. So how do you imagine you will be able to tell changed data from unchanged data? Maybe you are suffering from the common misconception that Progress secretly stores a "last changed" attribute somewhere in the record? If so, I have bad news for you. Progress does not.

You could, perhaps, cobble something together using the auditing feature. That will record changes without using triggers and without changing the structure. But "audit everything" will be also quite expensive from a performance and storage point of view and you will still need to write an awful lot of code to interpret, extract and manage the details of such of a thing.
 

joey.jeremiah

ProgressTalk Moderator
Staff member
Pro2 uses triggers but the latest version has moved to capture data changes (cdc) from triggers which was just introduced in OE 11.7.

I don't know a whole lot about cdc and the latest version of pro2 that uses cdc yet although i could find out

but the latest version of pro2 that uses cdc should makes capturing changes much easier than changing the schema to add triggers and faster.
 
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Rob Fitzpatrick

ProgressTalk.com Sponsor
I believe it is version 5 of Pro2 that has moved from replication triggers to CDC. According to product management, CDC is about twice as fast as the old mechanism.
 

maretix

Member
To elaborate a bit... if you insist on not using triggers you will need a mechanism to distinguish changed data from unchanged data. You also mention that you don't want to change the ERPs structure. So how do you imagine you will be able to tell changed data from unchanged data? Maybe you are suffering from the common misconception that Progress secretly stores a "last changed" attribute somewhere in the record? If so, I have bad news for you. Progress does not.

You could, perhaps, cobble something together using the auditing feature. That will record changes without using triggers and without changing the structure. But "audit everything" will be also quite expensive from a performance and storage point of view and you will still need to write an awful lot of code to interpret, extract and manage the details of such of a thing.
Thanks for your kind answer
Yes i think too AUDIT is not a good solution...

We need to obtain from PROGRESS an evaluate version of PRO2-SQL to test if it is really product for us...
We have nothing against TRIGGERS...we try only to understand what is best solution...

Regards.
 

Cringer

ProgressTalk.com Moderator
Staff member
Because of the heavy configuration overheads of Pro2-SQL you're unlikely to get evaluation in your own systems, but they will certainly be able to demo how it works in a dummy environment. I'd register for the webinar I mentioned earlier first of all as you'll get a good feel for the product there.
 

maretix

Member
Pro2 uses triggers but the latest version has moved to capture data changes (cdc) from triggers which was just introduced in OE 11.7.

I don't know a whole lot about cdc and the latest version of pro2 that uses cdc yet although i could find out

but the latest version of pro2 that uses cdc should makes capturing changes much easier than changing the schema to add triggers and faster.
thanks you for your kind answer.
If you have useful articles or news or webcasts abiut this PRO2-SQL , it will be very happy.
I am a bit confused now between TRIGGERS and PRO2-SQL ....
Regards.

NB: It is difficult to change schema db because our company is all time opened...
Change schema DB only for DW purposes , it should be very hard.
For this reason PRO2-SQL i thinked could be right product...
In poor words , PRO2-SQL needs to change .st files or not ???

Regards in advance and excuse me for my ignorance about PRO2-SQL
 

maretix

Member
Because of the heavy configuration overheads of Pro2-SQL you're unlikely to get evaluation in your own systems, but they will certainly be able to demo how it works in a dummy environment. I'd register for the webinar I mentioned earlier first of all as you'll get a good feel for the product there.
okay good idea ... i will followe it with my work collegue
 

TomBascom

Curmudgeon
We have nothing against TRIGGERS..

Well, you did say:
We do not want to implement TRIGGERS inside our DB

i am bit confused what to do ...

The CDC versions of Pro2 will not work with 10.2b -- so unless you have an upgrade to 11.7 on your near horizon you should implement an older release.

You're obviously not an OpenEdge focused kind of person so you would be well served to get some help setting up the trial. As James indicates, the pre-sales team is very likely to be able to get you going.
 

maretix

Member
okay good idea ... i will followe it with my work collegue
okay good idea ... i will followe it with my work collegue
Thanks a lot again CRINGER.
I am just registred to webinar you mentioned.
I think it will be useful to understand how PRO2-SQL version 5 works...
Now we use OE 10.2b Version , it means we need to plan (we have to do in a year o two) a migration to OE11.7 ...
It should be crazy to buy an old version of PRO2-SQL ...

What do you suggest ???
Waiting for changing OE Version or try to implement anyway TRIGGERS...
I read about CDC new feature in OE 11.7 version
I seems CDC feature needs to change .st files
Does it mean to do tha without stop db or not ????
Is it possibile according with you use CDC with OE 11.7 without PRO2-SQL ????

Thanks again for all.
I excuse me for my ignorance about this argument.
 

Cringer

ProgressTalk.com Moderator
Staff member
You will likely have to stop the DB for some configuration work. At the moment Progress is not always on, although it's a (pipe?) dream some have had. At the same time, even in a 24/7 situation there are windows for downtime. A lot of my customers are 24/7 warehouse operations and we find time to do maintenance. It's not easy, but we do it. It's imperative.
 

maretix

Member
You will likely have to stop the DB for some configuration work. At the moment Progress is not always on, although it's a (pipe?) dream some have had. At the same time, even in a 24/7 situation there are windows for downtime. A lot of my customers are 24/7 warehouse operations and we find time to do maintenance. It's not easy, but we do it. It's imperative.
Thanks Cringer,
You are right , we do the same.
When we have to do some changes to tables or index , we work from 21:00 to 00:00 to apply these changes.
The same i understand it will be necessary to use CDC in next OE Version.
Thanks again , have a good day.
 
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