Progress Strength and Future

[kinkikids]

Hi All,

i am new in Progress 4GL. I came from a 4 years Web developemnt/Delphi/SI background. Currently joining a new company that uses progress as a development tools for its MNC Internal System.

Sorry to say, i only heard bout Progress when i joined this company. And when searching on web about progress, i am surprise that its such infamous among the IT world. It really make me doubt about my decision to join this comp.

I know working is not about racing with technology, but to develop our soft skills such as problem analytical, interpersonal and project management skills. But i will constantly feel insecure of the language. It mostly happend during the down tide/stressful period.

Just wish to ask the fellow forumers for the following question:
1. Is Progress had came to it's end in the developement world?
2. What is the biggest advantages/Disadvantages of Progress compared to other languages?
3. (A very stupid question, but do hope to get response from you guys) What do you all think of Hot Chicks SAP/other ERP?

Thanks and i like this informative forum!

 

[tamhas]

This topic shows up regularly and a bit of searching the archives here and at other Progress sites should get you a bunch of answers, but the short version is that it all depends on your point of view.

The truth of the matter is that Progress Software is a bigger company with more sales now than it ever has. It has expanded its product line to include a number of technologies which are considered industry leaders. The sales in the OpenEdge division have not grown dramatically, but neither have they shrunk as some people are constantly predicting. And, the product itself has evolved dramatically for increased capabilities.

Java and the like are about popularity among the vocal and media. But, on the ground, there is a lot more COBOL in the world than Java. I think the figure from last year's Exchange was something like 5 million Progress users ... not exactly a drop in the bucket. The largest percentage of Progress sales are not because people are buying a new technology they have never heard of before, but because they are buying an application which is the best application they can find for their business and it happens to be written in Progress ... indeed, one can often argue that it is as good as it is because of the low cost of maintenance and modification in Progress.

Career wise, it is a mix. To be sure, there are a lot more Java jobs than Progress jobs, but then there are even more Java programmers competing for them. A Progress job, while possibly harder to find, is more likely to pay a premium, especially if you are good. There is certainly more opportunity to stand out from the crowd instead of just being another faceless minion.

The one caution I will throw into that is that there are a number of Progress end-user shops that become backwaters. They buy an application, modify it so much that they can no longer upgrade to newer versions, and end up stuck on an old version with old architecture and old techniques. Because they can, they often don't invest much in people or modernization. Personally, I wouldn't want to be in a shop like that. But, take the same shop and have them interested in modernization and you could have a very interesting time using your prior skills to put a new front end on the thing.

 

[jp-uk]

in the uk there has been a downwards trend in progress, many more places are becoming despondant with the license price rise and are keeping the DB in the background and going .net or java as the front end...

 

[tamhas]

Well, actually, the price of the licenses has gone down. But, I do think there is a trend toward non-ABL clients. However, the price of an Enterprise AppServer user and the price of a Client Networking client are the same.

 

[jp-uk]

that's interesting as it was the main arguement for over 4 companies in the north of england to switch platforms...

 

[tamhas]

People have some funny ideas about license costs. At $110 (USD here since I don't know UK prices) a seat for client networking, even a 500 seat installation is only $55,000 for all the clients and under $10,000 in annual maintenance. One can't pay for a lot of development with that kind of money, so where exactly is one going to save?

 

[wsong]

I see a trend using PHP + Mysql for application development here. As they are all free.

BTW a question to Tomhas

Now I see a trend returning to the old way of developing logic in stored procedure. So DB and business logic is bounded. Using PHP JSP for the front end. The architecture is unflexible and unscalable but the development cost is very low, especially for small-sized application. That's why many shops returning to the old track again.

What's your view on this.

 

[TomBascom]

The story is old and tired and will never stop being told. Some people are just penny wise and pound foolish.

 

[joey.jeremiah]

abit off topic -

anyone tried some ruby ?


i'm looking at playing around with ruby

... mostly because whenever people talk about architectures ruby and rails come up, alot.

just to learn and experience a tried and tested architecture, design patterns etc.

in contrast openedge reference implementation is still misguided and confused.

 

[TomBascom]

My sense of Ruby on Rails, gleaned from the sidelines, is that it looks pretty straight-forward for classic CRUD applications. OREA isn't aimed at that sort of thing at all so it isn't surprising, to me, that it doesn't compare favorably.

Progress 4GL used to be pretty good for those classic CRUD apps. Lots of applications got started with that sort of thing. While the idea of having a framework OREA for the big, heavy applications, has a lot of appeal it would surely help to have something for the short and sweet projects too and for there to be a clear progression (so to speak) between them.

 

[tamhas]

Stored procedures were a hack to achieve performance in a client/server environment. Today, one should be using a layered approach such as OERA. Saving money up front probably means paying for it down the line. As Tom says, things don't change much.