Feeling Tired & Washed Up @ 40

garypope

New Member
I apologize in advance for the downbeat flavor of this post.

I have been doing Progress for over 10 years now, 9 of which have been Chui.
Probably for the past 3 years I have been feeling like being a Progress Programmer is not challenging me enough. I have pretty much seen and done most things but really I am writing code now that I was writing 10 years ago. It seams to be "if yada yada then display yada yada .." same old same old.
I am a very good programmer but I feel my talents are wasted on this stuff.
I love new development but those tasks are few and far between. The reality is firefighting legacy code that was written in the 80's day in day out. On top of that most legacy code was written so very badly which just irk's me. I thought the solution was to move to other jobs but it ends up being the same thing different location.

Now I am 40 I feel very trapped, I don't have the opportunities to move to something new and moving around (other locations) is very painful for wife and kids, we have done it so many times. I am at the peak of my salary range, I am unlikely to be able to earn more money, so it is not a factor.

I really don't know what to do, but I just can't keep doing the If Then Display day in day out for another 10 years. I feel like I want to do something different, but there is nothing else I can do and I can't afford a big pay cut because mortgage, credit cards, car payments etc.

I feel very stuck and I suppose this is a fairly lame attempt at shouting for help. However, I would like to hear from anyone out there who is in or has been in a similar position / mind frame as me. If you got past this and have figured it all out, please share. I would also be interested in hearing from anyone who has been doing Progress for a long time and still enjoy it and can still keep up the desire to do more.

I long to feel happy about Progress once more.

Many thanks
Gary
 
Feel very much the same. Except its worse here in the UK as all the IT industry is being destroy by all the jobs being shipped off for slave labour in India.

Its getting to the point where you have to be glad for poking boring crap old code.
 

ijazbof

New Member
Hi:

I work in Mexico and I have been with PROGRESS since version 6, right now I work with PROGRESS version 9.1D and Webspeed. I have tried to sell the idea of using some other technologies along with PROGRESS to my boss. So far I succeeded in getting permision to use some Java. What I am telling is that sometimes bosses do not like change but we must present them an option they can handle while we obtain the change we are looking for to stop the boredom. Things in Mexico are not good economically speaking, in the year 2000 I was earning $20K USD/Year and right now I am making only $12K and have seen positions offering as low as $6K. In Mexico life is cheaper but anyway things are not very promising.

I hope we can all get a better work life
Take Care :)
 

Lynette

New Member
Yes I am in very much the same situation. My only hope is that I can change tack and do more analysis work rather than just straight forward development. I do enjoy doing the web stuff though - perhaps thats a way forward? Is there no other companies using Progress in your area? :(
 

Silberpfeil

New Member
i also was in a situation like you.
(... dynamics was the the end of my progress years. now i learn abap ...).
try to be glad of writing old progress code!
 

Kirmik

Member
I feel your pain guys - developing business applications (the bread and butter of progress) can be seriously boring. Not much advice I can give to cheer you up other than to perhaps try learning a different method of writing the user interfaces - web, .NET etc.

You get a quicker sense of acheivement when developing a non-progress UI and lets face it..... progress will never compete with the big boys in that field. Boring business logic is what it's all about so either live with it or move on to something more "sexy" ;p


Alternatively do what I'm doing.... start a business up as a sideline, give up your current job when you can support yourself and take control of your future.

Good luck ;)
 

dancar

Member
Ref:Feeling Tired & Washed Up @ 40

Facing reality bytes.? Same old bit-by-bit daily routines... sorry about the puns ... but unfortunately today its the same wherever you go, regardless of the sexy new tools used. Fewer new developments exists. Progress maintenance positions are all about exercising patience; not experimental nor exciting system developments. Fact is, we do what we do because we are good at the mundane, making everyone else, especially superiors, realize that getting those "mundane" tasks accomplished does cost more than baby sitting systems and hand-holding users.
The guy who beats tin for a living dreams about a job where he doesn't have to beat tin, the programmer dreams about a job where he could enjoy beating the crap out of something... You see, its all relative and similar to everyone no matter what the job. That's why its called "work". Tin-bender to programmer, engineering to sales I've done them and each has its own 'devils' to deal with.
Use the profession, save your money, explore on your on time for just the right outlet ... then vent like a mad-man. Who knows maybe you'll invent something everyone wants...and it doesn't have to be a program.
Yep; same old, same old.
dc
 

ranger101

New Member
hey guys



i found that ... well what's the right phrase

reading really sets you free ( learning that is )



there are lots of interesting technologies

even in the world of progress - adm/appbuilder, dynamics,

webspeed, dataservers/sql, reporting/analytical tools

applications e.g. mfg/pro, symix, epicor etc.

and related to it - web/internet, windows, graphics etc.

which opens alot of other possibilities

like java, .net, oracle etc.



now a days with the net's information revolution

you can get all the information/docs on-line

psdn.com and msdn.com are good place to start



ofcourse there's alot of people around

that never learned progress and hate their job

because they've got no idea of what they're doing

we've all met them right ? ... i guess that people rely

more on experience a caveman trial and error kind of thing

or wait to be sent on course's ???



well if that doesn't work

we can always take up drinking ... cheers
 
Evolve

Yeah the CHUI stuff is mundane and lets face it rather legacy now. The 4 GL has evolved into new areas for a long time now. There is the webside, Webspeed & SONIC MQ. CHUI is well out dated now. Just look at M$ for inspiration. At least evaluate moving into GUI & ADM2 SO. Dont sit there complaining that the world is passing you by, do something about it.
 

peidor

New Member
Challenge

I know what mean. Also 40 (by 2003). It's called the midlife-crisis:

"What have I reached so far ?"
"Can I do the same trick up to my retirement ? "

No you can't. Diversify. Take a course.

Do something in your spare time, if you have any. Integrate and mingle with others. Don't stick to Progress. I have let go. I am still doing something with it, but only consultancy. Tell others how they can do their work best. It earns better. And is more fun.

I started with 4 years Ingres, Then 4 years Progress, then Sybase and SQLserver and just a liiiiiiiitle bit of Oracle.

And now? no more. Just consultancy.

Client: "Soooooo, You're the expert?"
You : "I have seen some of it..." (and you're not lying)

:D
 

knarf

New Member
Eek !!

Cheer up guys

Some folk would kill for a steady job with good money.

Retrain, climb large mountains, try and build a time machine in your garage, or start someother off the wall project and get your love of life back.
 

EweSaidIt

New Member
Dear Tired,

Take comfort! You are not alone, my friend. In fact it generally doesn't matter what profession you're in. By the time you've done it for ten or more years, the work is probably getting rather repetitive. I'm just glad that I'm writing a little code and doing a little business analysis rather than trying divorce cases or drilling teeth. I started with Progress v3.2, and as much as I've tried to do other things for the past 17 years or so, I always end up coming back to the ole "for each" loop. Perhaps I'd be looking at retirement today rather than in another 10 years had I chosen to drill teeth. But I surely would have gone bonkers years ago doing that.

Writing Progress code is just respectable, clean, steady work. I agree with the other posts in this thread. In this age of outsourcing, just be glad you have a high-paying, low stress job. Try to learn other technologies and stay upbeat at work. Seek your real satisfaction with your family and hobbies.

Regards,
EweSaidIt
 

KPA

New Member
Hey Gary.

I have to tell you that I have been mulling over all of your points myself. I am your age (40 in the spring 2005), and quite honestly have been battling with poorer and poorer motivation over the last 5-10 years.

I have worked on a number of platforms since I started in the software business (c,c++,c#,java,Pascal,Progress, Dataflex, SAS,PC,Vax VMS, Bull, IBM mainframes, as400, etc) and I have worked with Progress since v 5, in the late 80's.
I got "stuck" in product development in the early - mid 90's and have since coded on more or less the same product line up until 2001 / 2002, the last 4 years in my own company. When I sold out of that company, I can not begin to tell you how tired I was of everything even remotely related to the Progress DB and 4GL.

I started in a consulting company that have a Microsoft strategy, and was very excited about the transition to .NET and C#. At this point (although I am currently in a Progress OpenEdge project (!)), I have been working 2-3 years on the MS platform, and I have to say it has given me a surge of new motivation. The tools are WAY better, the framework and platform specifics are WAY better, openness is WAY better, and, not to put to fine a point on it, I had the feeling we had been "sleeping in class" going on with the Progress stuff.

But, I have to say, this is a little beside the point. If I start now and work 9-10 more years coding ONLY .NET / C#, I know for a fact that I'll be equally demotivated and tired of the same old syntax and the same old problems being solved for the n'th time.

So, in my case, I have started to regret:
1) That I didn't spend more years in school. My current position / salary will not improve drastically, but I would have been better positioned for other jobs with, say, business school or law school (or whatever, really) in addition to the tech stuff.
2) I spent to much time coding and to little time expanding my own potential (doing networking & politics), even when I had my own company.
3) that I wasn't more into leadership. It has never tempted me to be a manager of people. But by now I wish I had given it more of a chance.
Like other posters on the thread mention, I guess the tedium of routine gets in to everyone's jobs. But I believe one can take steps to limit the feeling of uselessness and inertia.

There ARE ways of MAKING your own job more interesting. Just from the top of my head:

1) Change platforms / tools / context. It IS more rewarding to work on platforms that work really well and that have a future in them. It is also, in my mind, more rewarding to work with problems / businesses that are new to me. Plus, the learning in it self is a positive experience.

2) Take steps to widen your future potential. Additional education is a good thing. I'll be taking a project management class next year, and hope to get a chance to work more on the business end of projects in the future.

Just my $.02 worth....
Well, anyway, hang in there, and remember to play :)

 

garypope

New Member
The cursed For Each Loop.... End

I really wanted to thank everyone for your comments and advice.
It is sad to know that so many programmers not just in Progress but other languages are going through the same internal struggles that I go through day in day out year in year out. For me it feels like some kind of living hell, ok I get decent money and steady income, but the mental numbness is a high cost.
I don't remember when I felt enthusiastic about going to work, it's not the job or the company, it's that cursed For Each Loop. Fortunately for me the For Each Loop is comming to an end with my current company. They are dumping Progress for SAP. Wether I fit in to the future here, I don't know, but what I am battling with is, do I continue with this Progress path ... to continue the same old existence in another city somewhere else.
Maybe its time to bite the bullet, no take the bullet in the head and reinvent myself. How I long for those days where I want to go to work, feel good about the work Im doing and feel like the future is good.
 

knarf

New Member
SAP = May You Live in Interesting Times

Your whole company is going to be turned upside down and loads of stuff won't work. Time for a new IT Hero to come to the fore.
 

TimMcCully

New Member
Change is opportunity in a different guise

Take heart, Gary.

I will be sixty this year. I've been doing Progress for ten years since v6 and most of what I do is still CHUI stuff. We have been blessed with lots of business opportunity and a track record of business innovation in our market, so we have the chance to build on our Progress legacy stuff with real Internet applications. My company has ME as it's IT Director, and we are committed to Progress as a basic platform, though we won't be using Progress for UI stuff. For that we are turning to Macromedia Flash which works in any browser, Java Script, and Java when that won't do.

I am bored silly with our legacy stuff but looking forward to developing in Progress Windows GUI for our database app, replacing all that CHUI code (that only I know) with something easier to maintain and more flexible. That includies lots of Progress OE features aside from Progress GUI - and using a real Debugger at last!

In your knowledge of your current app, you have something of value that gives you an edge doing the SAP conversion and perhaps becoming an asset in support of SAP (with a BIG change in what you do). Adapting to a change like that always looks good on your resume even if you end up wanting to go back to development later. That might also give you more visibility to your company management, which should be good for a promotion eventually.

Given your experience, I might also look for a legacy Progress application that needs renovation. It's hard to knock a steady paycheck when you have a family to think of. If you can't combine familiarity with your app and with Progress, then look for a way to keep them both occupied. Remember outsourcing can also employ YOU at home, and you are a real person who can get to know the users where they work, unlike the folks in India.

I've gone on too much about ActiveX below, but educating yourself on such
issues before you go looking for a project can be an edge you might use.

I am keeping as far from investing my time and my employer's budget in Windows .NET as possible. We've moved to Citrix to minimize the patching headache for forty PC's (expensive but eventually all the PC Internet touching software will be maintained on one server). Windows .NET still depends on ActiveX technology which is as full of security issues as it is possible to have. Both Microsoft and Symantec have published ActiveX software that automatically installs via Internet Explorer / Outlook and can be perverted to destroy or steal data on your PC - there are simply too many liabilities with developing ActiveX and naming yourself as the publisher.

Yes for you ActiveX developers, I know an ActiveX control can be blocked if you later find out it has such serious flaws but why work in a technology so full of serious drawbacks that your company could be sued for doing what should be a passable job? So flawed cautious organizations are avoiding it as developers and customers? So full of drawbacks you should be ashamed of encouraging customers to continue trusting it? So flawed you may end up losing business for depending on it?

Want resources on this? Google for "activex security" and look for information on CERT.org (who publishes software flaw info for the Federal Government), Princeton.edu, and SAIC.com (who published guidance for the Health industry). One possiblilty is to educate yourself on this issue and offer that as guidance when you go looking for another project to work on.

The other thing you can do before you go on a job interview is see some of the free webinars about what you might be doing so you can sound informed.

Peace,
Tim McCully :wavey:
 
Just about every app in the world uses active X.

I can't believe you suggest avoiding them, it's impossible. Unless you are some sort of unix/chui dinosaur.



 

luebbert

New Member
sharpening the saw

I would prescribe "sharpening the saw" as advocated by Stephen Covey (Seven Habits) as the first step in facing a mid-life crisis.

I would then - and only then - look for new opportunities. Without a sharp saw, you will only see danger and risk in every new opportunity.

--

In regards to the negative advice regarding ActiveX, it was written by someone that can only see danger and risk.

Good Luck.
 

lld

New Member
9 years CHUI

Hi Gary.
9 years CHUI it's a long time .... I can confirm that. You are not alone.
But I'm still enjoing it ..... don't know why ....

L
 
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