Edi

[Ricardo Rafols]

Anybody use the E-commerce (35.21) of eB version?

If yes, can send me the edifact configurations?

Tks,
Ricardo Rafols.
ricardo_rafols@lycos.com

 

[rbaggetta]

A little more info

We are using Ecommerce, and using both X12 and EDIFACT. You need to setup your EC Subsystems, EC Subsystem/Exchange, TP maintenance and Transmission Group Maint before you can actually do something with Ecommerce. Once you have these all setup, you can start working on the Transformation Setup Menu, where you have to setup the exchange, MFG/PRO, Implementation and Transformation maps.

If you haven't had any training on the above, it will be next to impossible to set this up to work with your EDI software package oustide of MFG/PRO.
Hope this helps.
rico

 

[Ricardo Rafols]

Hi rbaggetta,

i did a course in QAD, but they only teach the RND (brazilian standar)...

i need a idea that how the edifact work....

i know the configurations of EC Subsystems, EC Subsystem/Exchange, TP maintenance and Transmission Group Maint......., but they only return the error 4412....


can u send your configurations on my e-mail?
Tks

Ricardo Rafols
ricardo_rafols@lycos.com

 

[rbaggetta]

Unfortunately, I cannot send you my EDIFACT maps, if that's what your asking. However, you can start by checking out the QAD website and TP's list. There are lots of standard documents there for EDIFACT and the trading partners. What software package are you using for the SNF files created by MFG/PRO to be processed?

 

[dangaet]

rico,

Make a dump of the edss_mstr, edsd_det, edsdd_det and dump also the edxf_mstr, edxfd_det and edxfdd_det.

That will pretty far give us an impression of how edifact is set up.

What also can help is send an example of a file that is being imported.

The reasons I am telling this are:
1. QAD is not releasing the structure of the SNF files
2. QAD is not importing or processing a EDIFACT message as defined by the international EDIFACT organization (UNECE)
3. If am right you still need a tool that transforms the EDIFACT message in a Standard Neutral Format.

The last two years I have been looking at how to get this optimized. I have almost finished modifying the import routine so it is capable of processing the complete EDIFACT message as defined by the UNECE. This however required me to modify also the way the edss_mstr, edsd_det, edsdd_det and the others are set up. I had to add several fields to get the EDIFACT rules defined.

Apart from that setting all of it up in MFG/Pro is not an easy thing to do.

You need an MFG/Pro definition, hopefully you can use an existing one. An MFG/Pro definition is related to program sources that will accomplish the task of translating the MFG/Pro transactions.

What next is required is the mapping of the exchange file format into the MFG/Pro format, in other words the transformation map.
I have been working on that one a while back and it is definitely not an easy job to do.

Please let us know whether the standard EDIFACT message is directly processed by the QAD import.

My main problem at current to get the modification finished completely finished is time.

kind regards,
Danny

 

[rbaggetta]

QAD has given us the standard files to use with the current gateway programs. You should have received these files as part of Ecommerce. I don't know if these we had to pay for this, probably not. Once you get the standard definitions you should be able to process any type of document. We were told by QAD, that these definitions should never be changed because of how the gateway programs work. So take note if you plan on changing the MFG/PRO Definition and Exchange definition.

Again, the reason why you probably can't read a segment in to MFG/PRO is because it was not initally defined in the gateway programs.

We too are now using EDIFACT and X12, and have learned to use other segments that are not in use to populate other feilds and map to these feilds to output/input data that is not standard EDIFACT.

You should have received the following definitions when you got Ecommerce from QAD:
Exchange Def. Maintenace:
schedule in/out version 2
TASN out version 1
invoice out version 1
Purchase Order, out, version 1

MFG/PRO Def. Maint
Customer-schd, version 1/2, In
Invoice, version 1/2, Out
MFG856, version 1,Out/In
Ship-schd, version 1, In
Shipping-Notice, version 1, Out
there are more...

Once you have these, you can do as you please in Ecommerce from inbound to outbound transformation.
hope this clears some stuff up.
r

P.S.
A big part of this, is creating the implementation definitions and transformation maps using, 35.21.15.13 and 35.21.15.17. This is where you are having problems I take it, because that's were we also stumbled on once we started using EDI from MFG/PRO.

 

[Ricardo Rafols]

Tks Danny for your help in say exacly what i like to do....

Here in Brazil the QAD not help us in e-commerce module because she arent now very good it!

when i try to configure the 35.21.13.... 35.21.15.... i ever receive the 4412 error.... if i try to modified.... the error 4412 ocurred again ....

Ever when i use a variable format in 35.21.13.1, have this error and never walk ahead!!!!!!

i like if any have a idea that how can i configure the e-commerce module to edifact standard.....

the dump of 35.21.17.7 or 35.21.17.8 (i dont remember rigth)... are so good!!!

Ricardo Rafols
ricardo_rafols@lycos.com

 

[dangaet]

Rico,

QAD delivers the standard definitions only if you pay for them. At the same time you can pay for using the TP List. If you have you can download trading partner definitions from the QAD Web.

The exchange file definitions are based on the Standard Neutral Format QAD has defined.

What is needed however for EDI communication is a tool for Transforming the Standard Neutral Format into a "real" EDIFACT message which can be send to your trading partners. Or vice versa a Transformation of the EDIFACT message you receive into the Standard Neutral Format.

The import routine which bases itselve on the exchange file definition is not capable of dealing with Segment Groups, Composite Data Elements, nested Segment Groups.

As a result processing a "real" EDIFACT message without having a transformation tool is not possible. Now that is exactly the area where I am focussing on. I came a long way already and I know that many customers can really benefit from it, because they will no longer needed additional tools to transform EDIFACT in SNF or the way around.

Yes, I agree that changing the Exchange File Definition is not what ordinary people should do. Once you change it completely you have to redefine the complete transformation mapping.
One can still use the MFG/Pro definition supplier by QAD and the associated programs.


Ricardo,

If you need help in getting this up and running please let me know. I will be having more time at the end of the year, cause my current activities at a customer site are finishing.

I am not saying that I can have it operational in a day or so.
If you'd like to read in the EDIFACT message directly it will take some time. Untill now the whole process already took me several months, including modifying the definitions and creating a new exchange file definition.


regards,
Danny

 

[rbaggetta]

Danny

Danny, I agree with you as well. It tooks us several months to get everything working as well, wether it was EDIFACT or X12. Since QAD puts standard maps on their website, these maps need to be "tweeked" to meet the customer side.

We just developed our companies EDIFACT standard for use with our JIT suppliers, and this is no easy task. Without the knowledge or how to create transformation maps and learn about the repositories, this will take a really long time to implement.

Do you plan on giving Ricardo the QAD standard definitions? This would get him starded into the right direction. I've said this before, but I cannot send out our QAD maps to him. They wouldn't work anyways because each customer has the own SNF guide lines. From GM to ours, we are both using EDIFACT, but some of the feilds are not mandatory, hence, copying maps from others will not be of benifit, only a starting point.
Sorry if I could not help out Dan/Ric.
take care

 

[Ricardo Rafols]

edifact

Danny,

tkx for your help....

i need to know how can i do to my mfg/pro read and load the edifact in e-commerce module and add datas in the 7.5.2 or 7.5.1 routines automaticly ...

ever time when i configure a variable format (35.21.13.1) , the e-commerce return the 4412 error....

can u say any, or send-me any?


Tkx again,

Ricardo Rafols
ricardo_rafols@lycos.com
Brazil

 

[dangaet]

Ricardo,

The error message occurs because apparently the software is not capable of finding a matching record in the ec subsystem definition . Please provide me a little bit more information on the file content, sent me an example, and on the set up of your ec subsystem.

So that I can find out why it is not working! It is probably a setup problem. I have it sorted out as soon as I get more info.

regards,
Danny

dangaet

dangaet@progresstalk.com

 

[Ricardo Rafols]

Danny,

im preparing again my edifact configurations, because i´m lost the database and need to do it again...

when i finish it , i send to your e-mail...

A question... when i configure the 35.21.13.1 or 35.21.15.6, i need to put together the fields of a segment?
Example:
UNB+UNOA:2+XZ7:ZZ+VLO:ZZ+010701:0253+366++GMDELJIT'

The UNB are the identifier of this data... the "UNOA:2" need to put in separeted fields or in same field and do a function to separete it on the 35.21.15.17???


Tks,

Ricardo Rafols
ricardo_rafols@lycos.com
Brazil

 

[bruce]

:chat:
Those who have replied regarding obtaining the TPL templates from QAD are correct.

Expanding on the problem that a lot of the people replying mention........

Radley Corporation offers Radley-EDI.

http://www.radley.com/Radley_EDI

Table driven document translation, mapping and communications are bundled to save you time, money, effort. Radley-EDI runs translation and communication modules interactively or in batch
mode.

Will Soutar wsoutar@radley.com of Radley is the person to contact regarding this product.

 

[dangaet]

Ricardo,

I have attached some of the work I am doing in setting up MFG/Pro EDI eCommerce for an EDIFACT ORDERS message. I am not completely ready with bringing the complete ORDERS message definition into the Exchange File Definition.

But to give you an impression that I am not just telling a story I have attached a zip file that contains my EC Subsystem Definition, and my Exchange File Definition for the ORDERS Message.

The problem with EDI eCommerce is that in the standard you can not identify when and where segments begin or end, whether a composite data element is used or not. And more important how to get the data elements seperated from a composite data element. How to work with segment groups.

UNOA:2 is a composite data element included in the segment UNB, the interchange header segment. UNOA is the syntax identifier and 2 is the version of this message definition.
In my approach I have made it possible to identify a composite data element. In the file edss_mstr.d you will see I have identified my composite data element field name begins with CO-.

The Segment Tag Seperator is "+" or its numerical variant.

My data element seperator is "43".

My modified version of edixload.p is able in processing composite data elements, segments, segment groups.

In my EC Subsystem set up I am using a few user fields to identify the separators used for segments and data elements, and to identify the name of a composite data element and to identify the name of a segment group.

If you use the standard eCommerce you could read in each element , whether or not it is a composite . And later try to use a function to get the data elements within a composite seperated. However this is going to make your transformation definition very difficult.

Please keep in mind that I had to modify the EC Subsystem maintenance program, the exchange definition maintenance programs to identify the new fields.

If you need more info please do not hesitate to contact me.

Kind Regards,
Danny

 

[Ricardo Rafols]

edifact

Tks Danny,

when i go to the company (next monday) i try to load your .d files... and if i have problems, i contact you...

can u send your 35.21.17.7 (the complete files to load the edifact configurations to i analyse it) on my e-mail?

tks,

Ricardo Rafols
ricardo_rafols@lycos.com
Brazil

 

[Ricardo Rafols]

edifact

Hi Danny,

i load yours .d files and see your configuration...

My configurations are the same, but the systems always return the 4412 error....

in 35.21.13.1 we need to use the UNB and UNH together?????

Tks for your attention.,..

Ricardo Rafols
ricardo_rafols@lycos.com
Brazil

 

[dangaet]

Ricardo,

Sent me your input file. I will check it.

The problem is that your edixload.p program is the standard program. This program does not know the difference between segment seperators, data element seperator, composite data elements, segment groups.

regards,
Danny Gaethofs

dangaet@progresstalk.com

 

[Ricardo Rafols]

edifact

i send the file in your e-mail "dangaet@progresstalk.com" ...

Ricardo Rafols

 

[dangaet]

Ricardo,

I have been looking at your file and there is nothing wrong with it, as such that it is a valid EDIFACT message.
EDI eCommerce is not capable of processing this file because it does not recognize composite data elements, segment groups, segment strat identificators, etc.. .

You would probably get a bit further if you put every segment on a line. However then you will still have to deal with the composite data elements.

Now I have modified the edi import routine, and am capable of processing EDIFACT messages in their standard format , so the way you delivered the file to me.

This modification however requires changes in also the exchange file definitions and the EC Subsystem Definition.

I am almost ready with the modification. I still have to deal with the validation of segment groups (mandatory or optional segments in a group).

At current I am developing a way to translate the UNECE edifact definitions into an exchange file definition.

My advise is please try it with 1 segment per line.

Or else contact me off-line and we will see how to proceed.

kind regards,
Danny Gaethofs

Originally posted by Ricardo Rafols
i send the file in your e-mail "dangaet@progresstalk.com" ...

Ricardo Rafols

 

[dreslp]

The product was never intended to read raw EDIFACT data, you may be able to get away with using the separator as the element ascii code.

Then in transformation - you can separate the values by using the transformation Progress function (entry) to pull the data values apart.

The error 4412 is coming from the flat file not having an extension tied to it that can be used to find out what subsystem to use. It is most likely that it can not determine the control record based upon your setup of the control records in the subsystem definition 35.21.13.1.